Technomage Novels

Wizz, the act on the NArn base was the one shown in Chrysallis, Season 1 finale, it kicked off the war between the Narn and Centauri and signles the start of the Shadow War.

I just re-read book 2 of Legions of Fire and have a few questions that tie into the Techno Mage book. Since I don't want to spoil people who have not read hte Techno MAge book, I am going to ask them here.

OK, The three MAgees that appear, Kane, Gwynn, and Finian are all Cloistered MAges. They obviously have the tech, they can cast spells without wearing a Chrysallis, but they have not been fully initiated (the different hair style and lack of Staff or Ammulet and the fact that they say they are not full Mages.) By the end of book 2, Finifan appears carrying a Staff that he had not had before, making me think he has finally been initiated.

Is this a new stage that only comes into existence when the MAges move into hiding? Galen went from Chrysallis stage to Initiate immediatly, nothing about being cloistered. A bit confused here

Wizz, the static was a actual Shadow Creature, whenever it was within a certain range of the probes, they got static I believe.

Regarding the Mages in the Centauri books, my guess is that not all the Mages went into hiding. We know this from Crusade as Allwyn didn't go into hiding. When Crusade airs, the Mages have not come out of hiding as well. So my guess is that the Technomages split into two factions, and that perhaps the group that does not go into hiding, alters the training protocols in favor of excelerating the process to aid in the Shadow War.

My two cents at least.

Azziz that is probably the case,the split. But only the members of the Circle knw how to create the tech needed to make someone a Mage. Since all members of the Circle went into hiding, a Mage who choose to ignore the Circle would not have been able to provide tech for new mages.

The Mages in the second book clearly were not Chrysallis stage Mages and had the tech. All three of them treated Galen as a superior, emaning they were probably made Mages after him, so they were probably given a chrysallis at the Convocation that brought Galen and comp into the Mages.

Nothing we read in the first Technomage book indicates that you can partially implant the tech, sooooo it sounds like a new stage was developed.

My guess is that they have the tech but are limited by the Circle in how they can use it.
What I got from the Technomage book was that an initiate still had three years of learning under his/her teacher before they went out on their own. Maybe that is what is meant here.

I kind of doubt that since Galen, Elizar, and Isabelle are all given a staff or amualte at initiation and Elric makes it pretty clear that Galen would be considered a full Mage after initiation. In the second book, it is clear that Finian does not have the staff when he first meets Vir but does at the end of the book. Meaning, Finian leaves this Cloistered stage and becomes a full Mage.

I be confused. Maybe it is something that will be dealt with in the second of the Technomage books

Ya mean I hafta go and read all the Centauri books now? Sheesh!
Actually, that's ok. In my search for the Technomage book, I found a few books store that didn't have it, but had the Centauri books. Not all, but one here, two there, and I picked them up along the way.
From what I gathered, the Convocation ceremonies were started at the winter solstice (earth time) and finished New Years eve. I haven't done the math yet, so maybe that's too many days. Folks started gathering, there were practice sessions, trips to other planets, and then the finale (both of them). So, not having read the Centauri series, I don't know what feats the three mages were performing on Centauri. However, they're not to use the tech until they're initiated. Maybe it's a break in the flow of things. JMS mentioned that something G'Kar was doing or involved in was out of sequence with some other event, and it slipped by him. Or, since you mentioned they defer to Galen, perhaps after Kell left the group, the circle re-arranged the rules. I agree that they must have split into two groups, one that went and hid, and one that remained. Which means Galen and Elric split up. "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger". Odd, isn't it, that when the mages came to Babylon 5, Elric was defending their decision to get the hell out of Dodge, when he was probably the strongest supporter to stay and fight of those in the circle.

Asis, yeah I figured out the static after the Drakh went into puppet mode on their first visit. It was just that I missed it when it was first mentioned. With Babylon 5, you can't afford to miss clues the first time around http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif

Thanks Prof. That'll save me from having to watch all those re-runs trying to find that one epsiode. (And that's a bad thing because...???) http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

well, you all knew i wouldn't agree--

first let me say, suspending my reading of Legions of Fire to read this book? bad idea. this one is not nearly as good.

first my quibbles, then my views,

this book just ain't written well. i skimmed the first hundred pages because i got so bored with the plot line (actually, the lack of plot line). the author makes a very amateurish mistake by introducing too many characterts. she put in 20 characters in the first 40 pages (yes, i was so bored, i went back and counted).

do the math. that's a new character every two pages, on average. to expect decent character development under those circumstances is ridiculous.

in fact, you can start reading this novel on page 141 and hardly miss anything. up until then, only two things of importance happen. morden spies on the mages. and galen discovers he as a "destructive" spell that he shouldn't use.

okay, having vented all that, beginning on page 141, when elric finally addresses the circle about the return of the shadows, the novel gets a lot better. the author borrows rather heavily from tolkien, i think--the debate in the circle over what to do is similar to the debate at the council of elrond in the fellowship of the ring. as with tolkien, there is also a "hold-out," a person with an ulterior agenda, who tries to sabotage the circle's plans.

like wizz, i see interesting links with the legion of fire series. in book two of that series, galen clealy uses his "destruct" spell to destroy a jumpgate. so we know he eventually decides it is "right" and not "wrong" to use this spell. his hatred for the shadows and drakh is also made clear in "casting shadows." no wonder he has little respect for the whims of the leading mages when the drakh unleash their planet-killer. in the case of the techno-mages, the wise elders don't seem to be very wise.

on the whole, though, way too much background information and not enough plot, for me. i think we learned almost as much about the mages in legions of fire and that book was a true page-turner--each chapter forced you to go on to the next one. i read "casting shadows" in one day, but that was mostly because I wanted to start volume iii of legions of fire, and not because "c.s." was all that great.

iz

Iz, I think you left something out. But first, I can see where you're coming from with regard to plot development. In a nutshell, I think this first part is mostly development, character identification, etc. The action comes later. That's how Babylon 5 stories have been, at least to me. Having said that, I'm going to start the Centauri series this weekend, so no telling...my thoughts about this may just change, too.

What you left out was one of plots, that being the foray into shadow territory. Clearly the shadows understand the tech very well, and they have no problem getting around it, or guiding others around it, too. That's how Brunell(?) got taken out so quickly, the shadow could see the real one, and when the "...first one on the left..." was taken out, the rest just vanished. Elizar had some help developing the spike that took Isabell out, too. So, I can understand why the mages want to bail out. Against races other than the Shadows and Vorlons, they can hold their own. Against the Shadows, though, they're toast.

iz, I have to disagree with you. I liked meeting the new characters. We were given a taste of the different personalities that make up the Mage's, their differrent styles, and their different philosophies. Outside of the fact that is very important in understanding the Circle's decision later in the book, we are going to need that info later in the trilogy.

In B5 we were introduced to the major races, their history, religion, government, and the like over the course of 5 years. So we did not need that info in the Centauri books, we already knew it. We knew nothing of the Mage's, other then they went beyond the rim and could change crystals into orange blossoms. Something needed to be done to give us more info about who they were and how they worked.

On a different subject, in re-reading the first 141 pages of the book, I found the name of an Chrysallis stage Mage who is initiated with Galen, Elizar, Razeel, Isabelle, Carvin, Gowen, Fed, and the rest. His name is Kane. Elizar pulls aside Galen to talk to him in the training building and motions to Kane and his friends, basicly says they are really unfit to be Mages.

So this only furthers my confusion. If Kane is intiated with Galen and the rest, we know he has the tech. We know, from Elric and others, that once a Mage has the tech, they are considered full Mages. They will still learn from their teacher but they will be sent to explore and learn on their own, eventually establishing their own places of power. No where is it mentioned that they are called Cloister Mages.

So I remain baffeled as to what the difference is between a Cloister Mage and a full Mage.

Wizz, all you have to do is look at the dates. Your right, the convocation ends on New Years, which is the end point of every season on B5. Also, Kosh mentions that Sinclair had been sent to Minbar to begin to take his place, that has to be at the end of Season 1. OK, so I have most of the season 1 episodes memorized because it is my favorite season and didn't need the other info but it is provided.

Too many characters is too many characters.

[P.C. you are SUCH an apologist for all things B5 (Sheridan excepted)]!

The leaders of the Circle and their immediate apprentices (that's about 12 characters right there) I could live with. They all play major parts throughout the novel. But who the hell if Fa? Or Fed, for that matter. What, did the "f" key get stuck when they were typing this up?

And did we really need a whole chapter on Jab and Des and Farmer Jae and Farmer Nee? It's almost a deliberate attempt to take a book that would have been good at 225 pages and stretch it to 336.

Like watering down the beer, mate. You might have more in quantity but the quality definitely suffers. Jeanne Cavelos should have a couple of sammy's before she starts on Vol. 2.

see

you get me started and i think up more things to complain about--

like anna

how anna got corrupted by the shadows is something we all want to know. but here we are introduced to her already corrupted. we have no idea what she was like when she first landed on z-ha-dum or how she became such a willing tool of the shadows.

okay, maybe this gets covered in some latter part of the trilogy. but what a poor place to begin. how much more evil and intimidating to see the "eye" looming up over her, just after the destruction of the icarus, flaying her mind with the choice--join us and save yourself and some of your companions or refuse us and watch what we will do to them in front of you.

we can't sympathize with anna because when we first see her, she's already evil. we needed to know what she was like before the shadows touched her.


oh--bad book, bad book, bad bad book.

Not an apologist, I just enjoyed the book. The scene with the people of Soom was meant to introduce us to the population and the day to day life of Elric and Galen on Soom. It is no different then showing people eating meals on B5, and we saw that plenty of times.

If I was an apologist, I seriously doubt that I would point out the inconsistencies that I do and try to figure out what happened. My last two posts have focused on some problems I have seen in how a Mage becomes a Mage.

I enjoy new characters, it is one of the reasons I like this book. We have meet three of the characters in the series, Galen, Elric, and Alwyn and four in the books, Kane, Finaian, Gwynn, and Galen. All in all, we barely got to know these characters. We know nothing about how the Technomages operate.

Here is a surprise, since I study political science, I love learning more about how society runs, what rules a group of individuals live under, and how those rules are established. I find the interaction between individuals fascinating.

So in the first 141 pages, which you dislike and I enjoyed, we meet many new characters who will probably play a role in the future books. We learn how the Mages are goverened, how their laws are established, and how they interact. We see the newest Mages begin to define who they are and what role they will play in the future (Elizar as leader, Galen as a Mage with potential. Isabelle as someone who will challenge the rules, Carvin as a skilled mage who could careless about power ect....)

Please do not assume that because I may be interested in different aspects of the novel then you, that I am trying to apologize for what you dislike. What it means is that I have different tastes then you and there is nothing wrong with that.